(09:50:43) The topic for #fedora-mktg is: This is the home of Fedora's
Marketing initiatives. | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing |
Fedora Ambassadors meet here. |
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors | This channel may be logged
and published. | Next Meeting: Thursday 21th September 22:00 UTC.
(09:52:26) k0k_0ut left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
(09:59:13) davidn [n=ke4qqq@68.143.127.95.nw.nuvox.net] entered the room.
(10:04:10) samfw: Is it meeting time?
(10:04:24) lxmaier: well, you're here samfw :)
(10:04:33) siddhart: it is 2200 UTC
(10:04:37) samfw: i always get consufed with UTC
(10:04:37) lxmaier: okay, let's see who else is live
(10:04:49) lxmaier: a roll call please
(10:04:52) lxmaier: AlexMaier
(10:04:58) davidn: DavidNalley
(10:04:58) samfw: SamFolkWilliams
(10:04:59) siddhart: SiddharthUpmanyu
(10:05:22) lxmaier: hmmm....
(10:05:42) kushal: KushalDas
(10:05:59) lxmaier: okay, then let us talk about any business you guys
have, so we can all make this meeting productive
(10:06:24) kushal: !
(10:06:29) lxmaier: > kushal
(10:06:57) kushal: I talked a large number of students in west bengal, india
(10:07:00) BobJensen: BobJensen
(10:07:15) kushal: they have mainly two things to say
(10:07:26) siddhart: !
(10:07:41) kushal: 1. Why can't they install anything from the Fedora CD/DVD ?
(10:08:04) kushal: through add/remove software
(10:08:12) BobJensen: !
(10:08:28) davidn: !
(10:08:28) kushal: 2. is about restricted codecs..
(10:08:46) kushal: I hope I provided a solution for the q2.
(10:08:50) kushal: <EOF>
(10:08:58) siddhart: well this is my first one i joined 2 days back...
i would like to say hi first
(10:09:02) siddhart: then
(10:09:24) lxmaier: siddhart: you will have to wait to be given the
word next time, ok?
(10:09:27) siddhart: i am tring to write a quick faq about fedora to
help answer these questions for newbies
(10:09:36) siddhart: i'll put em up on the wiki soon
(10:09:41) siddhart: ok
(10:09:43) siddhart: sorry
(10:09:54) kushal: !
(10:10:16) lxmaier: > BobJensen
(10:10:19) BobJensen: kushal: Answer about Item 1, I think there is a
Wiki item about this I will get you a link later perhaps post it to
the list also
(10:10:51) BobJensen: kushal: as for Item 2 when speaking as an
ambassador please make sure you follow the lines of cinduct
(10:10:54) BobJensen: EOF
(10:11:08) BobJensen: s/cinduct/conduct
(10:11:11) lxmaier: > davidn
(10:11:16) davidn: I was just going to echo BobJensen's comments about
adding the CD/DVD as a yum repo. EOF
(10:11:26) lxmaier: > kushal
(10:11:33) kushal: BobJensen, thanx
(10:12:21) siddhart: !
(10:12:22) kushal: Item 2. I said try to use free formats.. but
personally I know it is not possible for them
(10:12:50) kushal: they mostly use their computers for playing songs &
watchinh CD/DVD
(10:13:11) kushal: s/watchinh/watching
(10:13:41) kushal: That is the only reason they are complaining about fedora
(10:13:54) kushal: So, I pointed them to "Ria"
(10:14:05) kushal: <EOF>
(10:14:23) lxmaier: > siddhart
(10:15:21) siddhart: about the codecs i agree this is the most common
problem faced there have to be a soultion like giving guidlines so
that installing 3rd paryt softwares will be easy
(10:16:00) siddhart: a quick guid for accessing repos of 3ed party softwares
(10:16:03) siddhart: <eof>
(10:16:23) samfw: !
(10:16:25) BobJensen: !
(10:16:34) kushal: !
samfw siddhart sm|CPU smoha1 Sonar_Gal StillBob
(10:16:39) lxmaier: > samfw
(10:17:14) samfw: siddhart: i think instead of telling people how to
install "ugly" codecs, we need to educate people as to why they should
not
(10:17:19) samfw: eof
(10:17:23) lxmaier: > BobJensen
(10:17:29) siddhart: !
(10:17:35) BobJensen: siddhart: before starting "YAF" (Yet another
FAQ) please think about contributing to one of the existing items the
official Wiki for example following the strict content guidelines,
there are also many existing community run projects for this kind of
information like FedoraUnity.org and FedoraFAQ.org
(10:17:43) BobJensen: EOF
(10:18:32) lxmaier: > siddhart
(10:19:25) siddhart: i totally agree with the 'ugly' codec point but
rather then saying "we dont suppot this at all" and scare away people
we should provide a smooth transition
(10:19:33) ***BobJensen notes http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
(10:19:44) siddhart: and encourage them to switch to free world
(10:19:47) siddhart: <EOF>
(10:19:54) rdieter: (sorry to butt-in, but...) See also
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia "MP3, DVD and Other Excluded
Multimedia"
(10:20:00) lxmaier: > kushal
(10:20:08) kushal: samfw, educating people about not to use "ugly"
codecs is not practical in India
(10:20:21) lxmaier: rdieter: thanks for the comment, please ask for
the word next time :)
(10:20:54) kushal: samfw, students are simply refusing FC5 for only that reason.
(10:21:30) kushal: samfw, my personal experience as a student and as a
LUG coordinator is simply that
(10:22:05) kushal: samfw, thats why I started "Ria", 'coz my GF was
also refusing to use Fedora
(10:22:08) kushal: <EOF>
(10:22:15) BobJensen: !
(10:22:23) samfw: !
(10:22:42) siddhart: !
(10:22:48) lxmaier: > BobJensen
(10:22:49) BobJensen: What is this Ria?
(10:22:52) BobJensen: EOF
(10:22:56) kushal: !
samfw siddhart sm|CPU smoha1 Sonar_Gal StillBob
(10:23:02) lxmaier: > samfw
(10:24:13) lxmaier: ping samfw
(10:24:15) samfw: kushal: siddhart i realize it's not practical
(though I'm not sure why it would be less so in India), it's not
practical here either. I also agree we shouldn't just leave people
cold and say "not supported". But I think helping people learn about
why mp3 is bad, then reinforcing that with help in converting to
ogg/the virtues of ogg, could go a long way
(10:24:20) samfw: eof
(10:24:40) lxmaier: > siddhart
samfw siddhart sm|CPU smoha1 Sonar_Gal StillBob
(10:24:49) lxmaier: good comment samfw
(10:25:30) siddhart: i agree again
(10:25:31) davidn: !
(10:25:31) siddhart: but
(10:25:51) siddhart: like myself i am a student and using linux for
more then 7 years
(10:25:57) siddhart: it been long time
(10:26:07) siddhart: and yot i find it diffucult
(10:26:18) siddhart: to explain people y they shpuld use it
(10:26:20) siddhart: <EOF>
(10:26:27) lxmaier: > kushal ( davidn )
(10:26:34) UgoliniFrancesco
[n=francesc@host227-34-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]
entered the room.
(10:26:35) UgoliniFrancesco: hi
(10:26:39) UgoliniFrancesco: UgoliniFrancesco,
(10:26:41) BobJensen: !
(10:26:47) kushal: samfw, you are right
(10:27:02) rdieter: !
(10:27:14) kushal: samfw, but you should provide them support for what
99% people in india is using
(10:27:23) kushal: BobJensen, http://sourceforge.net/projects/ria
(10:27:48) kushal: BobJensen, its a offline installer, will release
Beta 2 soon adding mplayer & Anjuta
(10:27:53) kushal: <EOF>
(10:27:55) lxmaier: > davidn ( BobJensen, rdieter )
(10:27:58) davidn: lack of mp3 support is one of those non-practical
aspects of Linux.....even the podcast version of RH Magazine is
available as an MP3, so telling people or even helping to use ogg
isn't realistic, and I'd guess there isn't a single person here who
doesn't have mp3 support on their linux install. (maybe Alex, b/c of
her employer)
(10:28:52) davidn: to tell them to use another format is akin to not
having support for pdf or .doc, it cuts your nose off. I understand
the patent and legality issues, but it can't simply be ignored, some
solution has to be provided. even if it's jfgi
(10:28:57) davidn: eof
(10:29:01) lxmaier: > BobJensen ( rdieter )
(10:29:03) BobJensen: Remember this (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct ) says "You should
not direct people to software that may violate the law. Review and
understand our ForbiddenItems. You can direct users to third-party
software, but do not lead users to software that may violate the law
or intellectual property rights. When you direct someone to
third-party software, please make it clear that use of the software is
not supporte
(10:29:03) BobJensen: d or encouraged by the Fedora Project."
(10:29:19) BobJensen: davidn: I don't have MP3 support on my Fedora Installs
(10:29:32) samfw: !
(10:29:40) kushal: !
(10:29:48) UgoliniFrancesco: !
(10:30:16) lxmaier: EOF, BobJensen?
(10:30:29) BobJensen: kushal: with the great community projects like
Livna is yet another source of packages needed? Wouldn't it be better
to work with Livna to bundle some of these items that they already
have and distribute through thier channels?
(10:30:32) BobJensen: EOF
(10:30:34) lxmaier: > rdieter ( samfw kushal UgoliniFrancesco )
(10:30:42) rdieter: My $0.02...
(10:30:58) rdieter: Frankly, bitching here about non-free media
(dvd,mp3,etc) not being supported is kinda pointless
(10:31:06) rdieter: If want to contribute to that kind of thing, do it
elsewhere, like livna.
(10:31:12) rdieter: It has no place in Fedora, period.  Seriously.
(10:31:21) BobJensen: rdieter: +1
(10:31:42) rdieter: those wiki's BobJensen and I pointed out are about
as far as Fedora can officially go.
(10:31:44) siddhart: !
(10:31:49) rdieter: EOF
(10:32:02) lxmaier: > samfw ( kushal UgoliniFrancesco siddhart )
(10:32:15) ***samfw was also thinking of the code of conduct.
(10:32:27) samfw: and I don't have MP3 support on my fedora machines :)
(10:32:46) samfw: and I agree with rdieter's comments
(10:32:47) samfw: eof
(10:33:09) lxmaier: > kushal ( UgoliniFrancesco siddhart )
(10:33:33) kushal: BobJensen, in every talk of mine, I said about
using ogg formats
(10:34:21) kushal: But I find listeners(students) simply started
asking ?s on mp3 & other stuffs. then I tell them
(10:34:50) kushal: about Fedora's point of view/conduct/Free Software stuffs
(10:35:24) kushal: But to convince people here , it is not a proper way ..
(10:35:56) kushal: BobJensen, And I didn't make any new packages, I
simply took them from livna & extras..
(10:36:04) kushal: "a collection of available rpms"
(10:36:07) kushal: <EOF>
(10:36:33) lxmaier: > UgoliniFrancesco ( siddhart )
(10:36:36) UgoliniFrancesco: i think that if someone want to use
fedora is because he want to be free from commercial codecs and
program,
(10:36:51) lxmaier: !
(10:36:51) UgoliniFrancesco: so people who want to use mp3 or avi
etc... don't know the goals of open source and this means that they
don't understand
(10:36:58) kushal: !
(10:37:34) UgoliniFrancesco: what linux were been
(10:37:38) UgoliniFrancesco: and will be
(10:37:39) UgoliniFrancesco: eof
(10:37:41) lxmaier: > siddhart ( lxmaier kushal )
(10:37:46) siddhart: our goal with fedora is to expand the open source
/ free software culture and the point is how to make out point clear
to the potentials users they OSS is better way.... i am again
repeating my point do we need to be rigid in out approach
(10:37:50) siddhart: <EOF>
(10:38:02) lxmaier: > lxmaier ( kushal )
(10:38:39) lxmaier: I understand that people love their MP3
collections and they will not want to switch them all to OGG just
because we tell them to
(10:38:41) lxmaier: BUT
(10:39:32) lxmaier: since we're the "good guys" who decided to only
include truly free software in our distribution, we have to stick to
this policy
(10:40:09) lxmaier: there is support for MP3 etc available out there,
and isn't too hard to find (google will give you plenty good results)
(10:40:33) siddhart: !
(10:40:56) lxmaier: so if they are interested in getting their MP3 to
work on their machines, they can do this with relatively little
effort.
(10:41:17) lxmaier: however, we cannot offer this out of the box
(10:41:19) lxmaier: ever
(10:41:24) lxmaier: EOF
(10:41:32) lxmaier: > kushal ( siddhart )
(10:41:37) kushal: Our policy is good
(10:42:35) kushal: But in a coutry like India where piracy is the
easiest option for anyone, it is very hard to push LINUX as a whole
(10:42:48) kushal: s/coutry/country
(10:43:30) kushal: We always said to use Free Software only.. but the
options should be there
(10:43:54) kushal: UgoliniFrancesco, In india they really don't understand.. :)
(10:43:54) lxmaier: !
(10:43:57) kushal: <EOF>
(10:44:03) Foolish: kushal: the short term goal of expanding our
userbase must not be in conflict with the long term goal of making
digitally stored information available in open formats accessed by
free software.
(10:44:11) Foolish left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(10:44:20) lxmaier: > siddhart ( lxmaier )
(10:44:22) siddhart: lxmaier, thats what i am saying make it less of
an effort by providing a one click info and links on how to get them
installed if they want.... like adding a shortcut of avalible
softwares catagorised by free/OSS and non-free in the kmenu/gnome
launcher ... given a note they are bad and there is a better oss
option like ogg
(10:44:26) siddhart: <eof>
(10:44:48) lxmaier: > lxmaier
(10:45:11) BobJensen: !
(10:45:21) lxmaier: well, i see the dilemma, we have  a really good
policy, but it makes us less popular... hmmm.... what do we do?
(10:45:35) davidn: !
(10:46:11) lxmaier: i would say, we don't do what the masses demand,
because if we begin compromising our ideals now, we might as well all
go and use M$ again
(10:46:17) lxmaier: EOF
(10:46:21) rdieter: !
(10:46:30) lxmaier: > BobJensen ( davidn rdieter )
(10:46:52) BobJensen: I think we have beat this issue to death, do we
change the policy? I don't think we have to. We have links on the Wiki
to Community efforts that provide this information. Sure we
can't/don't say "sell your soul here"
(10:47:14) lxmaier: !
(10:47:17) kushal: !
(10:47:26) BobJensen: but the info is out there and some is good some
is bad but overall what can we do?
(10:47:28) BobJensen: EOF
littlecharly llaumgui lxmaier
(10:47:50) lxmaier: > davidn ( rdieter lxmaier kushal )
(10:47:55) davidn: We talk repeatedly about 'free' formats only, but
honestly, thats not the case, it's liability avoidance on redhats
part. .doc isn't an open standard, its been reverse engineered, .xls
isn't open some story, and yet we support both. I don't expect a
policy change, but lets at least not say it's because mp3 isn't an OSS
format.....
(10:48:24) davidn: we do and have supported many closed formats (gif
too iirc)  and yes arguing about it here doesn't change anything, so
I'll shutup and apologize.
(10:48:35) davidn: s/some/same
(10:48:52) davidn: eof
(10:49:45) lxmaier: > rdieter ( lxmaier kushal )
(10:50:20) rdieter: davidn, you're wrong.  It's more than just about
OSS, because there certainly *are* OSS mp3/dvd decoders...
(10:50:53) rdieter: It's that it is *illegal* (at least in the US
where Fedora is based) to distribute.
(10:51:28) rdieter: Further, siddhart suggested links/info... no can
do either...
(10:51:43) rdieter: also *illegal*, it's callled "contributory infringement"
(10:52:08) rdieter: Please, for the love of all that is holy, this
topic is a dead-end.  Nothing to see here, move on.
(10:52:09) BobJensen: !
(10:52:11) rdieter: eof
(10:53:05) lxmaier: > lxmaier ( kushal BobJensen)
(10:53:37) lxmaier: I move to close this topic after the queue is through
(10:53:52) BobJensen: +1
(10:54:05) kushal: +1
(10:54:48) lxmaier: please vote folks, either +  or -
(10:54:55) siddhart: +1
(10:55:00) UgoliniFrancesco: +1
(10:55:02) samfw: +1
(10:55:11) lxmaier: okay, the motion is carried
(10:55:15) lxmaier: eof
(10:55:23) lxmaier: > kushal ( BobJensen )
(10:55:25) kushal: No need to change our policy
(10:55:29) kushal: <rof>
(10:55:33) kushal: <eof>
(10:57:15) BobJensen: For the record rdieter is on the Fedora Board as
a community member and has access to the Legal team at RedHat for his
information. When he says it is not going to happen I would take it to
the bank. EOF
(10:57:50) BobJensen: Sorry lxmaier I could not hold it any longer
BobJensen bpepple
(10:58:01) lxmaier: np BobJensen
(10:58:26) lxmaier: okay, is there any OTHER business we need to discuss today?
(10:58:37) BobJensen: !
(10:58:38) lxmaier: otherwise, our usual hour is almost up :)
(10:58:41) lxmaier: > BobJensen
(10:58:58) BobJensen: lxmaier: last week we just talked about ways we
can spread the word
(10:59:19) BobJensen: lxmaier: over all we had a good talk and lots of
ideas were exchanged
(10:59:23) BobJensen: EOF
(11:00:02) ***BobJensen thinks it was last week or was it two weeks
ago when lxmaier's car broke down....
(11:00:16) lxmaier: yepp, last week
(11:00:43) siddhart: !
(11:00:54) lxmaier: i was on the way home and broke a wheel/suspension
by hitting the curb (all my fault, but nobody suffered besides my
wallet)
(11:01:00) lxmaier: > siddhart
(11:01:20) siddhart: what is the outcome do we have a policy on
spreading the word... anything approved?
(11:01:23) siddhart: eof
(11:01:47) lxmaier: siddhart: what do you mean by "policy" ? we have
our code of conduct.
(11:01:56) siddhart: !
(11:02:01) lxmaier: i do not think we need any more formalities
(11:02:02) lxmaier: > siddhart
(11:02:50) siddhart: i mean what ideas have maximum possibilits of
implementation .... we must be having results of all discussions
(11:02:53) siddhart: eof
(11:03:21) ***lxmaier is not following --
(11:03:29) BobJensen: !
(11:03:32) lxmaier: are we taling about last week's discussion?
(11:03:35) lxmaier: > BobJensen
(11:04:08) BobJensen: siddhart: personally I carry the word abotu
Fedora to My LUG, to local Schools and UNiv and to other peple that
express interest 1 on 1
(11:04:54) siddhart: about works that can be done for ''spreading the
word' what are the suggestions for ambassadors ...
(11:04:59) BobJensen: siddhart: I do not live in a Big city that has
Events that I could go to and spread the word there so I do what I can
with the reesources I have and that Fedora provides
(11:05:19) hpachas [n=kvirc@usmp-lug.usmp.edu.pe] entered the room.
(11:05:25) BobJensen: EOF
(11:06:04) hpachas: Hi, I am from Lima-Peru :)
(11:06:11) lxmaier: siddhart: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/HowTo
(11:06:21) hpachas: my name is HernanPachas
(11:06:33) lxmaier: here is a list of things you can do to spread the word
(11:06:40) lxmaier: it is linked from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
(11:07:43) siddhart: i do have big city outside my house and it is
educational hub of india.... i'll be going on seminars about linux and
fedora in some time.... as a representative of my college... i'll put
up a report of how it went
(11:08:15) kushal: !
(11:08:19) UgoliniFrancesco: bye
(11:08:20) UgoliniFrancesco left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(11:08:32) lxmaier: > kushal
(11:08:40) hpachas: the meeting on events I finish?
(11:08:40) kushal: siddhart, whwer
(11:08:45) kushal: oops
(11:08:54) kushal: siddhart, which city ?
(11:08:56) kushal: eof
(11:08:58) siddhart: pune
(11:09:48) lxmaier: okay, i see this meeting is coming to a close
(11:09:56) lxmaier: let us continue next week
(11:10:02) siddhart: +1
(11:10:11) kushal: Thanx a lot everyone :)
(11:10:36) lxmaier: thanks folks!
